Translated from Urdu thread of brother Hasan Molai

Famous salafi scholar Abdur Rehman Dimishqi writes in his Article (« قصة حرق عمر رضى الله عنه لبيت فاطمة رضى الله عنها) abou narration of Ahmad bin Yahya Dimishqi that

3. أحمد بن يحيى البغدادي، المعروف بالبلاذري، وهو من كبار محدثيكم، المتوفي سنة 279، روى في كتابه أنساب الأشراف 1/586، عن سليمان التيمي، وعن ابن عون: أن أبا بكر أرسل إلى علي عليه السلام، يريد البيعة، فلم يبايع. فجاء عمر ومعه فتيلة أي شعلة نار فتلقته فاطمة على الباب، فقالت فاطمة: يا بن الخطاب! أتراك محرقا علي بابي؟ قال: نعم، وذلك أقوى فيما جاء به أبوك!
هذا إسناد منقطع من طرفه الأول ومن طرفه الآخر. فإن سلميان التيمي تابعي والبلاذري متأخر عنه فكيف يروي عنه مباشرة بدون راو وسيط؟ وأما ابن عون فهو تابعي متأخر وبينه وبين أبي بكر انقطاع.
فيه علتان:
أولا: جهالة مسلمة بن محارب. ذكره ابن ابي حاتم في (الجرح والتعديل8/266) ولم يذكر فيه جرحا ولا تعديلا ولم أجد من وثقه أو ذمه.
ثانيا: الانقطاع الكبير من بن عون وهو عبد الله بن عون توفي سنة 152 هجرية. ولم يسمع حتى من أنس والصديق من باب اولى الحادثة مع التذكير بأن الحادثة وقعت في السنة الحادية عشر من الهجرة.
وكذلك سليمان التيمي لم يدرك الصديق توفي سنة 143 هجرية.

TRANSLATION:-

Ahmad bin Yahya al Baghdadi, famous by the name of Baladari, He is amongst great scholars of Hadeeth; and died in year 279; He narrates in his book “ANSAAB UL ASHRAAF”, vol 1, page 585 from Suliman and from ibn Aun that abu Bakar sent someone to Ali asws so that he can do Bayat; but Ali asws did not accept; so then Umar came and with fire and when Fatima asws saw that she said: o son of Khitab! You wish to burn my house? Umar said: Yes I want to burn it

This chain is broken from both ends; because Sulaiman Tameemi is Tabai’i and Baladair comes much later so how can he narrate from him without any connection
Similarly, there is another narrator ibn Aun, He is narrator and there is gap between him and abu bakar

It has two defects

1- Muslima bin Muharib is Majhool; ibn abi Hatim spoke of him in his al-Jarh wa Tadeel (8/266) and he did not any praise or criticism and none has said He is trustworthy
2- There is gap between Abdullah bin Aun who died in year 152 hijri and and He did not narrate from Anas so how can he narrate from Abu Bakar since this incident took place in 11 hijri;; Similarly Suliman also did not get abu Bakar, and he died in year 143 hijri

OUR REPLY:-

Let us see the original narration

المدائني، عن مَسْلَمَة بن محارب، عن سليمان التيمي وعن ابن عون إن أبابکر ارسل إلي علي يريد البيعة، فلم يبايع، فجاء عمر و معه قبس. فتلقته فاطمة علي الباب فقالت فاطمة: يابن الخطاب! أتراک محرّقا عليّ بابي؟! قال: نعم، و ذلک أقوي فيما جاء به أبوک.

Madaini from Muslima from bin Muharib from Suliaman Tameemi and from ibn Aun that abu Bakar sent someone to Ali so that he does bayat but Allah did not accept that; so Umar came with fire and when Fatima asws saw Umar, She said: O son of Khitab!Oyou wish to burn my house? Umar said: Yes

[Ansaar ul Ashraaf;; al Baladair,, Ahmad bin Yahya bin jabir;; vol 1, page 252]

ISNAAD ANALYSIS:-

1- al Madaini

المدائني * العلامة الحافظ الصادق أبو الحسن علي بن محمد بن عبد الله بن أبي سيف المدائني الاخباري. نزل بغداد، وصنف التصانيف، وكان عجبا في معرفة السير والمغازي والأنساب وأيام العرب، مصدقا فيما ينقله، عالي الاسناد.

Dhabi writes about him

“al Madaini, Allama, Hafiz, Truthful, abu Hasan Ali bin Mohammad bin Abdullah bin Abi said al Madaini al Akhbari; lived in Baghdaad; wrote books; had wonderful grip in battles and parentage, and history of Arabs; He was truthful in what he copied; his chains/isnaad are great

Then Dhabi gives opinion of Yahya bin Maeen, who said:-

 قال يحيى: ثقة ثقة ثقة. ( قال احمد بن أبي خثيمة ) سألت أبي: من هذا؟ قال: هذا المدائني.

“Yahya said: Thiqa/Trustworthy, Thiqa, Thiqa and Ahmad bin abi Khuthaima asked his father: what is this? he replied : he is Madaini

[Sair ul Aalam Nabala, Dhabi, vol 10, page 400, researched by Sheikh Shoaib, published by Maususa tur Risala, Beirut, year 1413]

And ibn Hajar said

قال أبو قِلابة: حدثت أبا عاصم النبيل بحديث فقال عمن هذا قلت: ليس له إسناد ولكن حدثنيه أبو الحسن المدائني قال لي سبحان الله أبو الحسن أستاذ. ( إسناد )

abu Qalaba said: I narrated a Hadeeth for abu Asim Nabeel; So he asked from whom you got this? I dont have its Sanad but it is from abu Hasan Madaini;; So he said: Subhan Allah; abu Hasan is a teacher

[Lisan ul Meezan, ibn Hajar, vol 4, page 253, researched by Saira al Ma’raf al Nizamia, India;; printed by Mususaa lil Matboaat, Beirut, third edition; year 1406 hjri]

And some of the copies of this book mention the word “ISNAAD” which means that just quoting from him is sufficient as he is himself a sanad

2- Muslima bin Muharib

مَسْلَمَة بن محارب الزيادي يروى عن أبيه عن معاوية روى عنه إسماعيل بن علية.

ibn Haban did mention him in his al-thiqaat, so this saying that only abu Hatim mentioned him is incorrect

[al Thiqat, ibn Hiban, vol 7, page 490, narrator 11108, researched by Syed Sharf ud Deen Ahmad, published by Dar ul Fikr, first edition, 1395]


3- Suliman Tameemi

Mizzi writes in Tehzeeb ul Kamal,

:قال الربيع بن يحيى عن شعبة ما رأيت أحدا أصدق من سليمان التيمي كان إذا حدث عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم تغير لونه.

قال أبو بحر البكراوي عن شعبة شك ابن عون وسليمان التيمي يقين.

وقال عبدالله بن احمد عن أبيه ثقة.

قال ابن معين والنسائي ثقة.

قال العجلى تابعي ثقة فكان من خيار أهل البصرة.

Rabi bin Yahya narrates from Shoba bin Hajaj that: I have not seen anyone more truthful than Suliman Tameemi; when he narrated from Holy Prophet, his color changed

abu Bahar Bakrawi narrated from Shoba bin Hajar that even the doubt of Sulaiman Tameemi and ibn Aun was like surety

And Abdullah bin Ahmad narrated from his father that he is Thiqa

and ibn Maen and Nisai said that he is thiqa

and Ijli said that he is Tabaii and Thiqa; and he is amongst the best ones in Basra.

[Tehzeeb ul Kamal, Mizzi, vol 12, page 8, researched by Bashar Awad Maroof, printed by Mususa tur Risala, Beirut, first print, 1400 hijri]

ibn Saad writes about him

كان ثقة كثير الحديث وكان من العباد المجتهدين وكان يصلي الليل كله يصلي الغداة بوضوء عشاء الآخرة.

He was Thiqa, narrated many Ahadeeth, and he was a man who was Mujtahid ; he would offer prayers all night and continue till morning with ablution which he performed for isha prayers

[Tabqat ul Kubra, ibn Saad, vol 7, page 252, printed dar Sadir, Beirut]

ALLEGATION OF BROKEN CHAIN

Dimishqi writes

هذا إسناد منقطع من طرفه الأول ومن طرفه الآخر. فإن سلميان التيمي تابعي والبلاذري متأخر عنه فكيف يروي عنه مباشرة بدون راو وسيط؟ وأما ابن عون فهو تابعي متأخر وبينه وبين أبي بكر انقطاع.

This chain is broken from both sides, in that Suliman Tameemi is Tabaii and from later ones, so how can he narrate from him with out someone? and ibn Aun is Tabai and later one, so how can he narrate from abu Bakar

OUR REPLY

What Dimishqi has mentioned about Suliman Tameemi and the impossibility of Baladari narrating from him, is a joke
This is because Baladari was not narrating from him DIRECTLY, rather there are two people in between; it seems that Dimishqi did not even bother to see the original book; and it is very strange on part of a scholar

Secondly, saying that ibn Aun and Suliman Tameemi were not eye witness to it, rather they cannot narrate from companions
Firstly, saying that they cannot narrate from a companion is wrong, this is because Safdi, who is a scholar of AhluSunnat, he said about ibn Aun

الحافظ المزني عبد الله بن عون أرطبان أبو عون المزني مولاهم البصري الحافظ أحد الأئمة الأعلام… وكان يمكنه السماع من طائفة من الصحابة وكان ثقة كثير الحديث عثمانيا

Hafiz Mazni Abdullah bin Aun; hafiz one of the great Aimmah……… and it was possible that he heard from group of sahaba, he was Thiqa, and narrated many ahadeeth and he was Uthmani

[al Waqi ul Baqiyat, Salah ud Deen bin Aibat Sifdi; vol 17, page 211, researched by Ahmad Arnawut and Turki Mustafa; printed by Dar Ahya al Tarath; Beirut, 1420]


MURSAL TABAI’I IS HUJJAT AS PER AHLUSUNNAT

Keep in mind that sifdi said that he is Tabai and a number of scholars of ahlu sunnat are of the view that Tabaii Mursal Narration is a Hujjat, rather their mursal narrations are stronger than Musnad narrations if narrated by someone like ibn aAun whose doubt was stronger than surety of others

وأما الأمور التي يدركها (اي التابعي) فيحمل على أنه سمعها أو حضرها لكن بشرط أن يكون سالما من التدليس والله أعلم.

ibn Hajar said: Those narrations of Tabaii which are narrated without nisbat/attribution will be considered on the status of hearing with the condition that he is not Mudallis; god knows best

[Fath ul Bari sharh Bukhari, ibn Hajar, vol 8, page 716, research by Mohib ud Deen Khateeb, printed by Dar ul Maarifat, Beirut]

Interestingly, in all of the narrators of ahuSunnah, there are only two people who were safe from charge of Tadless, and one of them is ibn Aun; So ibn Jaad writes in his Musnad, Nisai in his Isma ul Mudaliseen, Mizzi in his Tehzeeb ul Kamal, Dhabi in his Sair ul Aalam, ibn Hajar in his Tehzeeb ut Tehzeeb and Badar ud Deen Aini in his Maani ul Akhbar writes

عن شعبة قال: ما رأيت أحدا من أصحاب الحديث إلا يدلس إلا عمرو بن مرة، وابن عون.

from Shoba: I did not see anyone who is not doing Tadless except Amr bin Marra and ibn Aun

1- Musnad ibn Jaad, Ali bin Jaad al Johri al Baghdaadi, vol 1, page 24, researched by Aamir Ahmad Haidar, printed by Mususa Nadir Beirut; first print, 1410
2- Tehzeeb ul Kamal, Mizzi, vol 22, page 235, researched by Bashar Awad Maroof, printed by Mususa tur Risala, Beirut, first print, 1400
3-Dhikar ul Mudaliseen, Nisai, vol 1, page 59
4- Sair ul Aalam Nabala, Dhabi, vol 5, page 197, researched by sheikh Shoaib, printed by Mususa tur Risala, Beirut, 1413
5- Tabqat ul Mudaliseen, ibn Hajar, vol 1, page 58, researched by Aasim bin Abdullah, printed by Maktaba ul Manar, first print, 1403, Aman
6- Tehzeeb ut Tehzeeb, ibn Hajar, vol 8, page 89, printed by Dar ul Fikr, Beirut, first print, 1404
7- Maani ul Akhbar, Badr ud Deen Aini, vol 3, page 468

Mulla Ali Qari writes in the discussion that “Mursal Sahabi is not accepted” that

قلت: مرسل التابعي حجة عند الجمهور، فكيف مرسل من اختلف في صحة صحبته.

“Mursal Tabaai is accepted by Jamhoor/Majority, however there is difference of opinion in case of authenticity of those who had companionship”

[Mirqaat ul Mafateeh Sharah Mishkat ul Masabeeh, Ali bin Sultan Qari, vol 9, page 434, researched by Jamal Aitani; published by Dar ul Kutb Ilmia; Beirut, first print, 1422]

Shams ud Deen Sakhawai write:-


صرح الحاكم في علومه بأن مشايخ الحديث لم يختلفوا أنه هو الذي يرويه المحدث بأسانيد متصلة إلى التابعي ثم يقول التابعي قال رسول الله ووافقه غيره على حكاية الاتفاق ( واحتج ) الإمام مالك هو ابن أنس في المشهور عنه ( وكذا ) الإمام أبو حنيفة ( النعمان ) بن ثابت وتابعوهما المقلدون لهما والمراد الجمهور من الطائفتين بل وجماعة من المحدثين والإمام أحمد في رواية حكاها النووي وابن القيم وابن كثير وغيرهم به أي بالمرسل ودانوا بمضمونه أي جعل كل واحد منهم ما هو عنده مرسل دينا يدين به في الأحكام وغيرها وحكاه النووي في شرح المهذب عن كثيرين من الفقهاء أو أكثرهم قال ونقله الغزالي عن الجماهير
وقال أبو داود في رسالته وأما المراسيل قفد كان أكثر العلماء يحتجون بها فيما مضى مثل سفيان الثوري ومالك والأوزاعي حتى جاء الشافعي رحمه الله فتكلم في ذلك وتابعه عليه أحمد وغيره انتهى.

Hakim has explained explicitly in uloom that scholars of hadeeth do not disagree in what is narrated by Muhadith with connected chain to Tabaii and then if Tabaai says Prophet asws said etc; there is agreement on it; and imam Malik and he is son of Ans said like this; and imam Abu Hanifa (Noman) bin Thabit and his followers rather a group of scholars from Mohadatheen and imam Ahmad due to his saying whic is mentioned by Nauwi, and ibn Qayyam, ibn Kather, and others; They have trusted narration which is Mursal and deduced rules from it;;; and Nauwi had taken it from many Fuqaha in his Sharah ul Mahzab; and Ghazali copied it from Jamahir (?)
And abu Daood said in his Risala that Marasil have been used by many like Sufian Thori, imam Malik, Auzai so much so that Shafai was criticized for this; and he was followed by Ahmad etc

[Fath ul Mugheeth sharah al Fiyat ul Hadeeth; Shams ud Deen Sakhawai, vol 1, page 139, printed by Dar ul Kutb ilmia; Lebanon; first print, `1403]

Saraj ud Deen Ansari writes

ونقل الآمدي قبوله (مرسل التابعي) عن أحمد أيضا واختاره. وبالغ بعضهم فجعله أقوى من المسند لأنه إذا أسنده فقد وكلأمره إلى الناظر ولم يلتزم صحته.
وذهب ابن الحاجب إلى قبوله من أئمة النقل دون غيرهم وذهب عيسى بن أبان إلى قبول مراسيلهم ومراسيل تابعي التابعين وأئمة النقل مطلقا.

Amadi has copied it from Ahmad that Mursal Tabaai is accepted; and some have exaggerated it that it is more strong than connected sanad ; this is because when connected chain is mentioned than the authenticity is left to the one whe is reading ;; but ibn Hajib said that it is accepted from those who are Aimmah in copying;; and Esa bin Aban accepted marasil from them and Marasil of tabai tabaeen and in same way from all Aimmah of narrations

[al Muqna’a fi Uloom ul Hadeeth;; Saraj ud Deen Ansari, vol 1, page `39-140;; researched by Abdullah bin Yousaf ; printed by Dar Fawaz un Nashar; Saudia, first print; 1413]

Jamal ud Deen Qasmi writes from Qarafi

قال القرافي في شرح التنقيح: «حجة الجواز أن سكوته عنه مع عدالة الساكت، وعلمه أن روايته يترتب عليها شرع عام، فيقتضى ذلك أنه ما سكت عنه إلا وقد جزم بعدالته؛ فسكوته كإخباره بعدالته، وهو لو زكاه عندنا، قبلنا تزكيته، وقبلنا روايته؛ فكذلك سكوته عنه، حتى قال بعضهم: إن المرسل أقوى من المسند بهذا الطريق، لأن المرسل قد تذمم الراوي وأخذه في ذمته عند الله تعالى وذلك يقتضى وثوقه بعدالته؛

“Qarafi writes in Sharah Tanqeeh

Authenticity/acceptance of mursal narration is upon the silence of narrators, it is like giving the news of narrator being just and acceptable ; because silence is known to him; such narrations will be used in rules of Shariat; the silence tells us that he accepted the justice and acceptability of narration; if he does Tautheeq of a narrator, that is hujjat for us; and if he keeps quiet, even that is hujjat for us;; rather some of them said that mursal is stronger than musnad because if he is narrating mursal, it is like he is taking responsibility for it, and taking the responsibility in the court of Allah;; and this demands that we accept the trustworthiness and justice

[ Qawaid ut Tahdeeth min Funoon Mustalah ul Hadeeth; Mohammad Jamal ud Deen Qasmi;; vol 1, page 134, printed by Dar ul kutb Ilmia; Beirut, first print; 1399]

ACCEPTANCE OF IBN AUN AND SULIMAN TAMEEMI IS SUFFICIENT FOR US

Even if we suppose that the sanad is broken, even then it does not hurt the authenticity when we know that ibn Aun and Suliman Tameemi are accepting it, even if they have not been there since it is not possible that they would lie since the belief of AhluSunna is that even the doubt of ibn Aun is better than surety of others

وقال ابن المبارك ما رأيت أحدا أفضل من ابن عون وقال شعبة شك ابن عون أحب إلي من يقين غيره

ibn Mubarak said that I have not seen anyone greater than ibn Aun and Shoba said that I love his doubt more than surety of others

[Sair ul Alam Nabala, vol 6, page 365, researched by Shoaib ul Arnawut; printed by mususa tur risala, Beirut]

Mizzi writes in Tehzeeb ul Kamal

سمعت عمر بن حبيب يقول: سمعت عثمان البتي يقول: ما رأت عيناي مثل ابن عون
I heard Umar bin Habeeb saying that I heard Uthman al Bati saying: My eyes did not see anyone like ibn Aun

[Tehzeeb ul Kamal, vol 15, page 399, researched by Bashar Awad, printed by Mususa tur Risala, Beirut, 1400]

And Bukhari writes in Tareekh Kabeer

قال ابن المبارك: ما رأيت أحدا أفضل من ابن عون.
ibn ul mubarak said that i have not seen anyone better than ibn aun

[Tareekh Kabeer, Bukhari, vol 5, page 512, researched by Syed Hashim; printed by Dar ul Fikr]

So even if we accept that this was the opinion and saying of ibn Aun; that is sufficient for us

CONCLUSION

Saying of Dimishqi that Muslima bin Muharib is majhool/Unknown, is not correct since ibn Hiban included him in Trustworthy Narrators
ibn Aun and Suliman Tameemi are of such status that their Mursal cannot be doubted as has been accepted by Sunni scholars that doubt of ibn Aun is better than surety of others

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